La Tribune Afrique: What are the main objectives of the PPP Club for Africa?Marc Teyssier d'Orfeuil: The exchange of experience between the countries, the connection between the different PPP units of the Countries, the promotion and pedagogy of the PPP with the Ministers of these Countries, the organization of International Meetings of PPPs in Paris each year with an African Country in the spotlight (Ivory Coast, Congo Brazzaville, Gabon...) and the reception of numerous delegations, the participation in Meetings in Africa such as the African Infrastructure Forum, the the reception in Paris of delegations on this subject and of meetings with Ministers, even Prime Ministers.Concretely, can you tell us about the concrete contributions of the Club in terms of PPP for specific African countries?We had participated in networking through the World Bank institute of RAFPPP Francophone African Network of PPPs, which should be revitalized;But it is in Morocco that our contribution has been most significant.Indeed we launched the club 6 months before the registration of the law in parliament and many were skeptical about the chances of succeeding, the announcement of the registration in parliament was made during the launch of the Club which was very heard and auditioned by the Economic and Social Council and has established excellent relations with the DEPP (body attached to the Ministry of Finance. These days an evolution of the law is necessary because of friction with the sectoral law, the club of PPPs thanks to its partnership with the DEPP is called upon for its benchmarking, its opinions and its advice.African countries have an enormous need for financing, in particular to make up for their delay in infrastructure.In your opinion, is the use of a Public-Private partnership a preferred solution in this regard?It is one solution among others, an additional tool in the toolbox of the public order to handle with precaution, but if it is well understood and well used it could be very useful.The needs are enormous in infrastructure and the use of PPP could make up for delays and accelerate investments.I suggest that you clearly differentiate between two different types of PPP, merchant PPP, and public payment PPP.The first will find its economic balance by payment by the user, these are concessions and DSPs, very present in the field of Transport, airports, trains, ports, highways (payment by passengers, by the number of containers).If the private sector can carry all the financing of the infrastructure through revenue linked to its operation and this without public subsidy, then there should be no hesitation, but it is the banks which will be the judge of the peace and who will agree to finance if the risk seems bankable to them.For the social PPP, hospitals, schools, universities, in short Health and Education, the “partnership contract” model (today called the Partnership Market) will be different.It is a global, long-term contract, where the user/customer is the administration, and which will include financing, design, construction and maintenance for 15, 20 to 30 years.It is therefore ultimately public financing with pre-financing of the site by the private person, long-term performance-based remuneration;its advantage is to be able to have a building with a high residual value in 25 years, to delegate logistics/fluid management and to focus on public service.I am convinced that this tool would allow the African road network to better invest.Most of the time the road underinvestment results in roads being swept away at the slightest rains, a larger initial investment and better maintenance would ensure greater sustainability.In short, investing better to save money in the medium and long term is the major interest I see for the PPP.What is really hidden behind this model praised by some and decried by others?Are there pitfalls for African countries to avoid?It is decried because it is said to be more expensive, it is a version of bad faith which exasperates me.We pay the debt over 30 years, the investment and maintenance, so yes the public contract which cost 100 will cost 300 because we officially add up the real costs, (it's the 3 1/3 rule: 1/3 investment, 1/3 financing, 1/3 upkeep and maintenance), with a PPP, there are no hidden costs, it's total transparency.We may pay more for the cost of borrowing (and again private companies in Africa may be more bankable than governments) but a PPP in France is delivered on time and within the cost which makes a substantial saving .What is hidden is a tool that obliges the State services to "have things done" instead of doing, it is a revolution in habits that will take time.Moreover, the African economic fabric is different from the European one.Consequently, the PPP schemes must be adapted.On the one hand so as not to jeopardize local businesses with the standards of European PPPs (too many guarantees from financiers on the private sector) and on the other hand to sustain the local economy: African PPPs for Africans and by Africans with a consideration of the social impact which is not yet done enough in Europe.Do you know of any large-scale PPP projects with Western or non-Western groups that have already borne fruit in Africa and that you would cite as models?The Dakar highway is an extremely interesting successful example with part of public financing, in the field of "merchant" PPPs (it took public financial support for more than half of the investment, but private participation remains decisive in the successful realization of this project).To be continued in other capitals.Of course there are the subjects of water and energy, the seawater desalination projects in Morocco are to be followed, the project of the university of music in Libreville too.What do you think of the rise of “Chinese PPPs” in Africa?Regarding China, it is increasingly present in the financing of infrastructure in Africa, with a lot of flexibility in financing by winning many markets.I fear, however, that by being the least frequently said, there will be a fairly rapid disenchantment with the quality and sustainability of the projects.We must be careful, the PPP being by definition a long-term contract with a notion of sustainability, we must not give in to the easy way, at the risk of having structures that deteriorate rapidly.PPP infrastructures must consider inclusive jobs during the construction of the work and after, which is rarely the case with the Chinese.Today, do African countries have the stability and the adequate legal framework to guarantee the security of their investments and those of their partners?Several countries have the necessary legal framework, but it is not enough: ignorance of good practices, political pressure to conclude the transaction, negatively affect PPP projects, whether or not the government has adopted a PPP law. .The first step is to identify a pipeline of bankable projects that make sense economically and socially.Now all you have to do is decide to release small projects rather than white elephants.The PPP could encourage the emergence of small maternities or health centers to be favored over large hospitals....For me it is a question of political will.We must try on a small scale, a PPP by sector, to reassure, move forward, and one day soon go further and consolidate.When a leader understands that he can do in 5 years what his predecessors did in 20 years, we will arrive at the long-awaited acceleration to catch up.Should a pan-African PPP regulatory agency be created?It's a good idea, regulation not necessarily, exchanges and permanent dialogue between the teams of the PPP units, it seems essential to me and the club also has this vocation.We have also launched the initiative of a G5 PPP Sahel in the presence of Michel Sapin in this spirit on these countries strongly affected by terrorism but where peace will only be established if the infrastructures accompany it, the PPP will allow, I hope, to accelerate these essential investments.Interview by Maimouna DiaLast step: confirm your registration in the email you have just received.Remember to check your junk mail.See you very soon on the La Tribune website and in our newsletters, La Tribune editorial staff.See you very soon on the La Tribune website and in our newsletters, La Tribune editorial staff.Discover all of La Tribune's newsletters The 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